| Author | Message | ||
     Fiona Powell |
See paso horses on video here, bottom right... http://www.trotontv.com/ | ||
| Jane Wilson |
Hi Debra Yes, Yorkshire Pudding with either roast beef or onion gravey is wonderful - but you shoud use goose fat, smoking hot, which gives them a much crisper, richer taste (O my god, how sad are we?!) For an unusual dimension, you can eat them with treacle (of the golden syrup type). I cheat and use a shop-bought batter mix, but I have my own chickens, so can use wonderful free-range eggs. However, I would be more than willing to swap you all the Yorkshire puddings you could eat for access to a 5,000 acre trail park! I'v only seen footage of a peso horse on TV - looks like you could drink a glass of wine at a flat out trot without spilling a drop? Do you have a down-season as regards driving in the USA? We used to have one here in the winter, but now we have an indoor series which is very popular. Do you have anything similar? Small, nippy ponies are often a positive advantage indoor. Jane, from a cold and gale force windy Yorkshire | ||
| Janet Sycamore |
Or you could save yourself a lot of bother & work ( especailly if cooking is not your strong point ) & pop to the supermarket & buy some Aunt Bessie's ready mades from the freezer department & if serving them up for guests make sure you throw the packet in the bin before you get caught out........like me !!!! Janet Sycamore | ||
| Patti Atkinson |
Liz, you forgot the salt & pepper! | ||
| Liz Howe |
Hi Debra, Here is a recipe for Yorkshire pudding should you wish to try this delicious pud. Serves 4-6 300ml (½ pint) Milk 110g (4 oz) Plain Flour 1 Egg Oil, Lard or Dripping Place the flour in a bowl, then make a well in the centre and break in the egg. Mix in half the milk using a wooden spoon, work the mixture until smooth then add the remaining milk. Beat or whisk until fully combined and the surface is covered with tiny bubbles. Allow to rest for 15 to 30 minutes, whisk again before use. Pre-heat oven to 220°C; 425°F: Gas 7. Place a teaspoon of fat into 12 individual deep bun tins or a single large tin and place in the oven until the fat is very hot. Pour the batter into the tins and bake for 10 to 15 minutes for individual puddings (or 30 to 35 minutes if using a large tin) or until risen and golden brown. Enjoy it with roast beef. | ||
| Skipples |
lol - 23 acres and small in the same sentence!! I still find it extremely difficult to get my head round how big America is! And your ranch sounds absolutely lovely, how nice to have that much space with 'nothing' on it. Spring has sprung 'doon sooth' (yes, I am also obsessed with the weather!), we seem to have bypassed snowdrops and gone straight on to daffodils! My crocuses are coming up only to be withered by the warmth! Perfect driving weather though, not too hot and not too cold. I can't resist not pausing to reiterate the pure wonder of Yorkshire pudding...I like them with onion gravy and broccoli (but then I am a veggie)!!! S xx (bright but overcast isle of thanet - wishing she was back home in wet and windy Scotland!!!) | ||
| Janet Pilling |
Yorkshire pudding is a savoury pudding that you eat with roast beef and gravy. It is light and fluffy and tastes absolutely delicious. It was meant to be a filler in poorer times to make a small joint of meat go further but now has become a real speciality and roast beef just doesn't taste the same without it. I have to say you have brought a whole new dimension to this board Debra - we're all enjoying hearing about driving USA! Your mud however sounds just like mine - perfectly revolting and I'm sick of the sight of it this year! Roll on the spring. Janet in very wet and windy Scotland (wishing she was in Florida!!) | ||
| Debra Bk |
Hi Jane, Texas is rather large, so the terrain varies quite a bit, from mountains to dry desert to lush almost tropical areas. Even though it is a huge state, most of the land here is privately owned, so not too many trail parks etc. for it's size. My own ranch is very small...23 acres. It is mostly pasture with some woods, a creek and black clay which is hard and fine when dry, but becomes sticky gooey mud when wet! I am lucky to live down the road from a 5000 acre trail park. There are many other states which have wonderful trail systems and lots of open space to drive in. I have lived in Wisconsin, Illinois, Arizona, Florida and Texas. The western states have a lot of open land, but are a bit better for riding than driving. I still have one old riding horse, a Peruvian Paso. Nice and smooooth! So tell me....what is Yorkshire pudding!?! Debra....vacationing in warm Sebastian, Florida on the east coast. ;o) | ||
| Jane Wilson |
Hi Debra, Interesting that a lot of people think a SBB might cause a cart to tip - in my experience the greatest cause of that particular problem is driver error! (Done it myself, so speak from experience - a FBB would not have mitigated my stupidity!). I was at Catton Park a few years ago when the world pony champs were held there but I'm sure the American team were all driving four wheelers. Of course, for minis you have to take the extra drag factor of four wheels into account and it does make a big difference - even my chunky 13.2 Welsh Sec. C noticed the move up from 2 to 4. What's the driving terrain like in Texas? I only know what I've seen on TV! Do you have access to miles and miles of off road driving? That would be a treat. All the best, Jane W From a slightly warmer, almost sunny but enjoying gale force winds Yorkshire (the biggest county in England!!) | ||
| Debra Bk |
Jane...I did *not* know you all were obsessed with the weather, I thought it was US! Ha! With regard to SBB saddles, I'm afraid I am in the teeny tiny minority here. Not only do 99% of all mini drivers here used fixed BB saddles, about 80% of those also use snug wrap straps (no floating shafts!) and rather fine harness for all off road type driving. It seems that many people do not want to hear that they may be doing their horse harm by using their current setup. So, most of this discussion here falls on deaf ears....only a few have taken this info to heart, as I have. I'm happy to hear that you would have required they change their harness to a SBB in order to compete. Most folks I have spoken with here think that a SBB saddle can *cause* a tipping cart. This makes no sense to me. I had a good chuckle the other day when during an FEI track width/harness discussion, someone on a list here posted that they were "American enough" not to mind rebelling against how the "over the pond people" did things! Oh brother... Debra in Warm, Sunny, Gigantic sized Texas...Bigger than the whole UK! Ha Ha! | ||
| Jane Wilson |
I've really enjoyed reading these messages! Debra you've obviously tapped into the British obsesson with the weather! Just to go back to the SBB debate, I occasionally judge at club level and if I were at the start of Sec A and encountered someone with a fixed back band and a two wheeler (very rare these days!) I would be inclined to halt their progress mainly on the grounds of animal welfare and not just safety. As you can imagine, all the twisting and turning in an obstacle, even at a sedate pace, would put a terrible amount of uncomfortable, uneven pressure on a pony's back with a FBB, not to mention if the obstacle was on a slope. On a rounded pony it could cause the whole pad to slip around and on one with a more defined wither the discomfort would be even greater. Well done to you for entering the debate in your country from a sensible stand point! Jane Wilson, from a freezing cold, (nearly Baltic), foggy, icy winter-wonderland looking North Yorkshire! | ||
| Skipples |
Appologies! In a previous post I stated that "the only time a fixed backband (and tugs) would be used with a two wheeler ('correctly') is with a stanhope gig or a curricle, both of which are highly sprung (7 springs)" - this should read "a stanhope gig or a tilbury gig", and not a curricle, which is in fact a pairs vehicle!!! Debra; our shetties are much stockier than yours, though you can see them more in the 'foundation stock', as would be expected! Our shetties are of the type of the first picture you posted. S (finally - a sunny day!!) | ||
| Debra Bk |
Mike...your photos are really nice!! Great action shots...is this what you do? Your web site says amateur....but they look professional to me;o) In your Jan 08 album, is that an Appaloosa in the third row?! I thought they were strictly an American breed, one of the few. I have a friend who is also an equine photographer. She is www.captivespirit.com Smiles....Debra | ||
| Debra Bk |
Hi S and Janet, The lines get blurred quite a bit here between Classic, Modern, Modern Pleasure Shetland! A Foundation is a Classic whose bloodlines contain no Hackney cross for X number of recorded generations. Classics are the most popular. I am not an expert on Shetland ponies, but I do think they are beautiful. I believe that all Shetlands here are a bit more fine boned (by design) than there in the UK. I don't own any Shetlands.. (NO Hackney in mine!<g>), but I do admire their beauty. Here are a few web sites for US Shetlands that I admire. You can tell me if they are built differently than yours! http://www.wilkinsonponyfarm.com/ http://www.rhapsodyshetlands.com/ (Shhhh! I am looking at "Simply Stunning" on the sales page) http://www.geocities.com/Sharrway_training/ Mini horses here have two different registries, AMHA and AMHR. AMHA goes up to 34" at last mane hair. AMHR has two size divisions, "A" goes to 34" at last mane hair, "B" goes from above 34" to 38" at last mane hair. They each have their own shows (Many!) and National shows. (and the two registries are not fond of each other) I own minis registered in each and some double registered with both registries. I guess nothing is simple anymore! Janet, I'd love to "chat" and see pix of your gang. Just go to my website and click email to send directly to me. Debra, in very windy warm Texas | ||
| Janet Sycamore |
Hi Debra I have been following the SBB debate with great interest I drive mini shetlands ( 34inch at withers ) both single & pairs for pleasure ,a little bit of low key showing & my great passion is Indoor Driving Trials ( run similar to HDT but in an indoor school with 3 phases in a day Paces & Precision (Driven Dresage ) cones & obstacles ( see www.indoordriving.co.uk ) the little ones excell at this as we can compete on a level playing field with the bigger ponies/horses I have never really done any extreme driving in a 2 wheeler as I use 4 wheelers for my competition driving so can,t add to the debate but it is very interesting reading !!I am a self confessed total addict to small ponies !! & would love to " chat" with you online & share pictures & ideas with anything to do with minis Welcome to our world in England Have looked at your web site & so..... jealous of your lovely home & weather !!contact me if you wish at workshop@npsycamore.co.uk Janet Sycamore from a very dull overcast afternoon in Suffolk ( East Anglia ) | ||
| Mike Watts |
Debra - there are pics of Fiona who posts here + lots of the others ... and a few video clips .. on www.mikewatts.com Regards, Mike | ||
| Skipples |
*Laughing* Yeah I guess 'Skipples' is a bit dark and mysterious!! It comes from a nickname I have had for some time now though so I forget! Yeah she (the pony in the first photo) is a little star; I used to do HDT with her too before she retired (from competition) and she's done National HDT in pair and tandem too (with another driver and her owner respectively). Yes, they are lovely - and you can see the hackney in them. I keep looking at them and thinking 'what a stunning horse', and then I remember that they're minis!!! I guess the spookiness comes from the hackney (as they are notorious for it)?! So if Foundation is like a British shetland and Modern is like a hackney - what is a Classic? Your show sounds good - is it a start of season one? I would say 'I hope it stays sunny for it', but I guess thats more than likely over there?! S xx (still dull here but not yet raining!) | ||
| Debra Bk |
Hi S, Those are beautiful pictures too...especially the first one. What a really pretty horse and turnout! Well, I know now that you are a woman...I could not really tell by the nick name "Skipples"! Our American Shetland Ponies are not built at all like those in the UK. They have become a very fine boned animal. They are generally either classified as Foundation, Classic or Modern...with modern having a good blend of Hackney in them. The Moderns have a reputation for being "dingy", and spooky. Minis here are measured at the last hair of their mane, (not the top of withers)so can easily be the height of your Shetlands! They go up to 38" at last hair, and many are double registered mini and Shetland. Our local mini club is holding a practice show at my place this Sunday, so I'm out spruce things up a bit! (That's code for shoveling manure and putting down fresh fluffy shavings) Debra, in warm sunny Texas | ||
| Skipples |
Hi Debra, Your minis are lovely  - can't get my head around how small they are as we don't really have small ponies that aren't shetland types over here. I guess we all know of each other on here! But a lot of us know each other 'in real life' too!! I know more people up towards the north and Scotland as that is where I am from, and it is probably the same for others. We know each other from our groups and if we go to nationals then we get group crossover!!! Sadly I don't have my own horses (though have been lucky enough to drive other people's!)...but I'll try and post some piccies anyway! IMG]http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p120/SkippyMackay/LowtherSide.jpg[/IMG] This is me driving a friends horse in a private driving class IMG]http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p120/SkippyMackay/StormSquare.jpg[/IMG] and driving another friend's horse in his first competition (I've posted the direct links as I'm not on my home computer!!) S x (looks like rain - better clear up for Saturday when I go driving!!) | ||
| Debra Bk |
S wrote: "....However, I would say that the sliding backband is doing its job in allowing the carriage to tip without pulling the pony off his feet - which is what I beleive would happen if a fixed backband was worn." That is a very good observation and one I had considered myself. I think it's doing our horses a disservice to expect them to *try* to hold up the cart in a fix like this. Do most of the folks on this board know each other? Do you have pix of your horses posted in a folder somehwere on here? You can see me and my minis at: www.suncountryminis.homestead.com Please be gentle with me! ;o) I'd love to "see" the people I'm speaking with! Debra, who just had a lovely drive with a 3 y/o mini in training. | ||
| Skipples |
Hi Debra, As your NWDC friend suggests; I would argue that the carriage, having gained enough momentum to tip (by riding up the barrel - which is why obstacles are now carefully regulated to prevent this), would do so whatever harness the pony was wearing. However, I would say that the sliding backband is doing its job in allowing the carriage to tip without pulling the pony off his feet - which is what I beleive would happen if a fixed backband was worn. Perhaps those people suggesting the sliding backband is at fault should be asked whether they want their pony to be the fulcrum as their carriage tips, with all that pressure on his back? Also, the shaft would be held in place and must either turn the pony over or snap where it meets the body of the carriage. If this were to happen (hypothetically - I still think the pony would fall first) then the carriage would have even more freedom to roll. I would like to see anyone going fast enough, without the intervention of posts or other obstacles, to cause their backband to slip around more than a couple of inches - which I would regard as perfectly safe. S x (dull, foggy isle of Thanet!) | ||
| Debra Bk |
 This photo was posted as an example showing that a SBB contributed to this tip over. One person who belongs to the NWDC has seen the pic and says that's not so at all. Apparantly, a wheel ran up the barrel and she felt a fixed BB would have made no difference in preventing a tip as the turn was made hard and fast. Debra | ||
| Debra Bk |
 | ||
| Debra Bk |
{mini with sliding BB} | ||
| Debra Bk |
I will try to post a couple of pix! \image(mini with SBB saddle) This photo was used to suggest that a SBB was not suitable for driving on a slant. You can see the right shaft has dropped to follow the ground. I think it is doing just what it should do. But the contention is that this allows a potential unsafe situation as in the next pic I will post. Debra in too early to tell the weather, Texas | ||
| Mike Watts |
Yes you can post pictures up to 100kb directly into your messages. Like this:  Even on level ground the horse and vehicle may not stay aligned - independent shafts here Put this in your message: \image{Text description} changing "Text description" to something useful, and it will ask you to upload the pic from your PC when you post your msg. Alternatively you can just put the picture's web address in the message and that will show as a link. See the post at the bottom of this section "How to post pictures" or click here for a guide or Help/Instructions below for techie instructions. | ||
| Skipples |
Hi everyone, I would expect the sliding backband not to move a particularly long way - however, ask any saddler how much damage a small pressure difference can cause. It is the slight movement that allows the horse, carriage and harness to work together fluidly. Certainly I would not expect it to move sufficiently to cause 'risk', indeed the very idea is that it moves and then returns to the centre as the weight equalises. Also it has just occured to me that in the event of a two wheeler with fixed shafts turning over a floating backband would give the pony some hope of keeping his feet while a fixed backband would not as it effectively holds him in position at the same angle as the carriage. Probably the harness would break but this is becoming less likely as the webbing/plastic harness becomes stronger. Steph - was it flat where you were competing? I can only assume that people have different veiws of the 'safe' definition quoted from the rulebook. Personally (only) I would equate 'safe' with 'correct' as fundamental points of harness construction have been developed with safety and confort of self and horse in mind. It is interesting (Debra) that that the US and the UK have problems that are opposites - here it is more usual for someone to be pulled up for using a sliding backband with a four wheeler and independent shafts which has been secured in a way the judge does not deem safe! As a note, the only time a fixed backband (and tugs) would be used with a two wheeler ('correctly') is with a stanhope gig or a curricle, both of which are highly sprung (7 springs) I think you can post pictures here - I think you would need Photobucket or something similar to post direct HTML code, or you could just post a direct link. S x | ||
| Debra Bk |
Hi Steph, Since everyone here uses fixed back bands with two wheelers, I can say that breakage is not an issue. I think pressure on the horses back is. One has to wonder when looking at a photo of a sliding back band in action, what is happening to the horses back without one? Not many folks here want to address that concern. Debra, in now sunny Texas | ||
| Steph Richards |
I would just like to add to this post that I know and fully appreciate the reasons for a sliding back with a two wheel vehicle. However, until last year I competed with a 2 wheel vehicle, a 14.2 pony and a fixed back band. We competed at novice level at various venues. In 3 years only one standing presentation judge ever noticed or remarked upon our fixed back band. Also the harness did not break and the pony went fine. Can anybody clarify exactly how much one would expect a sliding band to move? | ||
| Debra Bk |
Hi S and Ruth, I very much appreciate your replies and I'm sure this seems an odd question to begin with! Here is the reason for my question. Over here, hardly any 2 wheeled harness at all have sliding backbands, regardless of whether they will be driven on smooth roads or across rough country with uneven terrain. I was told by an American harness maker, that harness over there has SBB's because your vehicles are much heavier and the roads much rougher. Even if true, this perspective does not address traveling cross country, where ALL ground is rougher. The history of driving here was on smoother roads, and most of the time with 4 wheelers. BUT...there is a sticky "discussion" going on here amongst CDE drivers that if one is competing in a two wheeler, that a SBB would be a BAD idea since it allows the tugs to move on uneven ground. I contend that this is rediculous since that is it's very purpose. You could examine 500 single harness here for two wheelers and 499 would have fixed tugs. That is the reason I posted here. I am trying to convince some fairly stubborn types that their reasoning is unsound. So....are you suggesting that at club event in the UK, a turnout would not be allowed to participate if they were going cross country with a two wheeler and fixed BB saddle? Also, can one post pictures to this list? Thanks for bearing with me! Debra, in cloudy, windy Texas, USA | ||
| Skipples |
Hi Debra, The official rules say that tandems and singles may use 2 or 4 wheeled vehicles while pairs and teams must use 4 wheelers. The only other things specified are weights and track widths. The only rules regarding harness state that breeching must be used if there are no breaks on the carriage and that "any type of harness may be used provided it is safe and in good condition". At grass roots events, especially in novice/pre-novice classes, this is often checked by the person at the start. Some might let a turnout run with a fixed backband and shafts though I suspect many would not. But I am unable to speak as the "perspective of the majority of drivers in the UK" as this is not something I have ever discussed at length!!! However, the BDS system of exams would expect it to be known that two wheelers should always be used with floating backbands - for the reasons below (though originally more concerned with allowing movement of the carriage body on the springs to give a smoother ride!). The rules regarding carriages can be found in the sections entitled 'Competition A', 'Competition B', etc. Hope this helps, S (sunny, nee foggy, isle of Thanet!) | ||
| Ruth Auton |
Hi Debra, at club level some competitors do use 2 wheel carriages for the marathon phase but this is becoming very rare now with the advent of 4 wheel carriages that can be used for all 3 phases of the competition. from a frosty middle England, Ruth | ||
| Debra Bk |
Hi S, Thank you for your reply and explanation! I assume this is the general thinking among most HDT drivers there, with the reasons being the same? If drivers were competing at lower levels, the same would also apply, right? I want to be sure of my "facts" as being the perspective of the majority of drivers in the UK. I'm not sure if there is an "official" stand on this. Many Thanks, Debra...in warm drizzly Texas, USA | ||
| Skipples |
Hi, in HDT it is unusual for anyone to compete to the level where it 'gets extreme' with a two wheeler. However, a sliding backband should always be used with a two wheeler as this allows the carriage to tilt, eg when going along the side of a hill, without putting the pony off balance. With fixed backband and tugs the tilt would cause there to be lots of weight on one tug and none in the other. This also puts excess strain on the harness and could eventually cause it to break, causing a serious accident. Hope this helps, S x | ||
| Debra Bk |
Hello, I've joined the BHDTA forum to ask a fairly simple question of Driving Trial drivers in the Uk. It may sound a bit strange, but here goes. I know that in the course of normal driving over there, a single horse put to a 2 wheeled vehicle will use a sliding backband and open tugs on the saddle. I am also aware that this holds true for most types of competitions. However, in the sport of Driving Trials (called CDE in the USA) where it can get a bit extreme, do those who compete with 2 wheeled vehicles also use a sliding backband with open tugs or a fixed one and why? I appreciate your help with this question! Kind Regards, Debra in sunny warm Texas, USA |