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Guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, 1 May, 2007 - 10:02 pm: | |
I drove the Novice 2007 test last weekend in my first ever 2 day event, with a Novice pony - and I thoroughly enjoyed it!
I think the test flows very nicely, and seems a huge improvement on the afore mentioned BHDTA test1 - largely due to the ommission of the collected trot movements. At least this test encourages you to drive forward in a proactive manner, you are only asked to perform the same movements as you would while exercising at home/on the roads - if people can only drive with both hands on the reins how do they signal to other road users?
If you aren't able to perform the movements required in the dressage for your given level, maybe you should concentrate on training, or compete HC for a fun outing, you may enjoy your driving more in the end! |
Laura Middlemiss
| | Posted on Saturday, 14 April, 2007 - 11:06 pm: | |
hello all this is my first post here and I have been reading this thread with interest. I had been thinking on this topic since some club members had commeneted that they did not think that even a straight line one handed should be included at novice and / or prenovice.
My view is that every driver by the time they are coming out to any competition should be able to do this and a rein back ..... maybe not in "style" but certainly with some willingness and control. Even a circle could be attempted.
My reasoning is that if any of these horses are out on the roads and if the whip is NOT at any time taking right hand off reins to signal turns etc then are they competent enough to pass the basic road safety tests ?
I agree with Karen in that every horse being driven should be able to rein back willingly for safety reasons .... therefore why should it not be included in a P &P (dressage) test .... after all the test is supposed to be the horse demonstrating that it can do all the movements it needs to be a safe and capable driven horse.
If a horse cannot rein back then it might be difficult to extricate from an obstacle if the proverbial hits the fan LOL as well as "out there in real life !"
I know the point has been made that its hard to improve several things at once and of course it is ....... but hopefully the newer structure will enable a slower and steadier progression, improving on the basic moves.
I further agree about judges days ........ its very hard to judge fairly and consistantly other than be training and discussion . Our club is having a training day in May and Its eagerly awaited LOL
great to have an arena for discussion on these points ....... thanks Mike |
Dawn Emmerson
| | Posted on Wednesday, 28 March, 2007 - 8:46 am: | |
With rein back this can seem very daunting for Novices which is why I suggested it was not included, but then I realised that we now have pre novice. So realistically by the time you have reached Novice then you should be able to rein your horse back. After all, as brought to our attention and rightly so, you need your horse to rein back anyway in case of difiiculties especially when out driving on the roads.
What would be nice is a judges clinic where people can go and watch a couple of horses driving a test and the judge marking each movement, saying why they give that mark and what could be done to improve it.
I attended one of these a few years ago with the MDTL and it was great.
At least then people will have a better awareness of what the judge is looking for. |
Karen Blair-Imrie
| | Posted on Tuesday, 27 March, 2007 - 9:03 am: | |
I actually think that the progression in dressage tests is pretty good.
At pre-novice A level, we are only expected to show very gradual transitions, lengthened strides (not extended strides), and the horse need only show a willingness to rein back. In the B test, the same is true, except that now the horse should be performing the full rein back.
By the time a driver gets to the Novice 2007 test, he/she should be familiar with the basic movements - walk, halt, rein back, working trot, and lengthened strides. Transitions should be crisper than in pre-novice (not quite as gradual), but the transition from lengthening to halt at the end of the test is still progressive. So the only really new movement in this test is the one-handed circles.
As for what comes in the Advanced class test - try canter :-) And long overdue it is, too. |
Sandra Johnson
| | Posted on Tuesday, 27 March, 2007 - 8:19 am: | |
The novice test is not easy and i found the one handed circles difficult. I did learn to drive coachman style, then competing in the trials i very quickly found driving two handed better and now to go back to the one handed i have found difficult. I also when moving up from novice at club leavel to open i found the open test easier to do the one handed deviations than the circles.
Out of all three phases of the DT's I found the dressage the one i least enjoyed, I have a very supportive husband who encouraged me to work hard on the dressage and it has paid off, but how do you over come nerves? My pony when working him in did a perfect dressage test, did my test and went to pot (nerves).
The other issue that is being mentioned is whip use. I too at the Nationals heard the TD briefing about over use of the whip, you felt that you could not use it as you were being watched, fortunatly i have a very forward going pony and do not have to use it. I did however have a pony that was not tired and refused to go any faster than a walk in the hasards and had to use the whip and I have never had to do that before but it was not used cruelly. i think there is a danger that genuine use of the whip can be punished especially if the stewards are not drivers themselves.
Regarding the dressage test all of it is acheivable with hard work and understanding the way the pony goes. What i have found difficult is not having anyone on the ground to tell me. Now i have someone and I often get someone else to drive my pony so that i can see what he is doing and how it is acheived. |
Steph Richards
| | Posted on Monday, 26 March, 2007 - 7:40 pm: | |
I think we are losing the point. Individually the movements in this test are achievable by most reasonably competent drivers. However what is making the test difficult is putting these movements together and calling it a novice test. As a novice and also somebody who fits in carriage driving with other aspects of living I think these are too much to put together in one test. I can work on rein back, I can work on one handed circles, I can work on extension but I cannot bring all 3 up to the same level as if I only hand to work on one or two of them. If more and more is included at novice level what will then need to be added for open tests. |
Patti Atkinson
| | Posted on Monday, 26 March, 2007 - 11:08 am: | |
You can also help the horse while it learns by practicing your rein back on a slight uphill so the horse doesnt have the full weight to push. |
Karen Blair-Imrie
| | Posted on Monday, 26 March, 2007 - 9:01 am: | |
I think that one handed circles are really difficult. Why? Because I never learned to drive coachman-style with the BDS; coming from a riding background, I learned to drive using 2 hands. If you ask a dressage rider why they don't use just one hand rather than 2, they will look at you very oddly! The independent feel of the mouth and control of the reins is, in my opinion, best achieved through using 2 hands. I have spoken with several open drivers from mainland Europe, and they all agree. But those who have always driven with one hand will, of course, disagree here :-)
Anyway, the other issue is the reinback. Here I must disagree that it is too difficult a movement for even the simplest test. A horse must be taught to perform the reinback. If you are in a tight situation - such as jammed up against a post in a hazard, or suddenly rushed into a narrow, busy road - you may get into serious trouble if your horse does not know how to reinback. It's one of those absolutely essential things you and your horse should be good at, such as going steadily past traffic or waiting obediently at a road intersection.
It is not hard to teach your horse how to do it. You can begin in hand. Stand in front of your horse and push on his chest while saying 'Back' or whatever word you choose. If he doesn't get it, step on his front hoof. Usually that will do the trick. Even one step back is to be praised, building up to 4 or 5 steps in a straight line. Once he has this down, try it in harness. Choose a perfectly flat, smooth surface, such as the road. Check that the breeching is correctly fitted, not too low or too loose. Be sure that horse and carriage are in a straight line, so that a 4 wheeled carriage doesn't go sideways. Put your groom in front of the horse and ask for the 'Back', taking a firm and even contact as you do so. Reinforce this by having the groom push on his chest. Do NOT haul him back by the reins! This not only looks terrible, it may cause the carriage to go every which way. Again, even one step should be praised, building up slowly to the 4 steps required in the dressage tests. After the reinback has finished, immediately drive forward at walk.
Once the horse knows this, stop practicing in the same place. Horses quickly learn where and when you will ask for a movement, and some will start to reinback as soon as you halt at X, thus losing points for the halt. Wait for longer than the 10 seconds halt so the horse doesn't anticipate. Sometimes wait 20 seconds, other times wait a minute; also ask for the reinback at random, convenient places while out on a drive. Just don't try it on much of a hill, or in deep mud or sand; it's hard for the horse to do what you want in those situations, and he might lose confidence.
Hope this has been helpful :-) I really feel that the reinback is Very Important, and that doing it quickly and properly could someday save the life of you, your groom, and your horse. |
Fiona Powell
| | Posted on Thursday, 22 March, 2007 - 2:15 pm: | |
Mike Daniell has a suggestion. If the point is to get competitors (and horses) going well at the start of the season, why not drive this test at the first two or three events of the season without a change of trot pace? The one-handed rein-handling and the reinback could be omitted, too, with, perhaps, the lengthened strides at the end left in. This would have the advantage of getting drivers used to the movements and precision without expectations being, for some, impossibly high.
I think it's a good idea to have some kind of progression from easier to harder tests through the season: it encourages people who really want to do well and shouldn't discourage people who've just moved up from pre-novice. It's probably too late for the event organisers to do much about this now - just a thought! |
Cathy Willis
| | Posted on Thursday, 22 March, 2007 - 12:20 pm: | |
Hi
The new Novice test almost mirrors the old BHDTA 1 (1999)amended 2001, test except for the 4 loop serpentine rather than 3 which I believe to be an improvement.
If you were to look at the old novice tests prior to BHDTA 1, (sorry I cannot remember their numbers, but think Novice 6 and 7 spring to mind) there were reinbacks and lengthenings in those tests.
Clubs are not forced to use the BHDTA Novice test except for Novice Qualifier Classes, so why are clubs going to use it if they feel that the drivers cannot cope with it! |
Steph Richards
| | Posted on Wednesday, 21 March, 2007 - 8:41 pm: | |
I think I am the novice driver referred to by Fiona. I can only agree with what she has said in particular regards the one handed circles. I would much prefer to perform a straight forward circle well than struggle one handed.
I am certain that a dressage test like this will put off some novices who are discouraged by having to do any type of dressage.
Also why does movement 13 contain what appears to be 3 movments did they run out of numbers or are they trying to fool us.
So if you see a novice trying to perform a one handed circle leaving the arena please wave as I go past. |
Dawn Emmerson
| | Posted on Monday, 19 March, 2007 - 7:03 pm: | |
I love chatting...
What is best a simple test driven well or a more challenging one driven poorly for the BHDTA Novice Dressage Test(2007)
For Club Novices I don't think there should be any rein back or one handed movements, nor should there be collection as these are all advanced for this level. Lengthening is okay but I'd have thought not extention.
Performed correctly with softness and suppleness takes many hours of training, you would not expect to see these movements in ridden dressage at this level so why is it written for driving?
Horses that are asked to perform movements that they are not used to doing become tense, hollow and resistant which does not help in their education.
As all training is only enhanced through levels of education then surely a more constructive set of tests could be produced that help the horse progress and for that of the whip.
Judges must get fed up of seeing poorly executed tests and would prefer to see a slighlty easier test for novices that are driven accurately and fluently.
Just my thoughts....
However for |
Fiona Powell
| | Posted on Monday, 19 March, 2007 - 5:27 pm: | |
Today an experienced club novice-level driver was beginning practising the new BHDTA Novice dressage test (2007) she'll be driving at club events this season and she wasn't happy at being expected to do a rein-back and two one-handed 30m circles. I had not realised that this is more-or-less BHDTA Test 1 re-written (actually it looks nicer to drive because the serpentine is four loops, not three, which makes more sense to me in an 80m arena).
When I started driving this test I had completed club novice and open seasons and I was preparing to go to National events to do novice qualifier classes.
My query is, does anyone else think that this test is too demanding for club novice drivers to enjoy? I know many novice drivers in my area and they are good, enthusiastic and will try, of course, but a simple test driven competently is, in my view, more satisfying for the driver, horse and judge than a challenging test driven poorly.
Many people I know don't have the facilities, the time or necessarily the budget for training which driving this test reasonably well requires. Are we putting (some) people off by making them drive a test beyond their own and possibly their pony/horse's ability? Novices need encouragement!
As they say, "Discuss". What do you think?
p.s. Brilliant dressage diagrams thanks to Philip Bateman - a terrific help! |
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