| Author | Message | ||
     David Stafford Member Username: Bbbruno Post Number: 15 Registered: 04-2008 |
Do members not think that this subject has run its course? I think ALL members should give the Council their opportunity to show their worth. New secondments have been made to the Council, whether you agree with them or not. The Council will be under scrutiny pre and during the forthcoming season. This will give all dissenters the time to evaluate their performance. If they are still unhappy this gives them enough time to find suitable candidates to be appointed at the 2015 AGM. I would also ask that, if they are still unhappy, that they attend they AGM and voice their opinions rather than make unnecessary posts on this forum. I should point out that I have been a member for over 30 years and have never attended an AGM, so I have no axe to grind. | ||
| Mick Ward Member Username: Mickw Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2014 |
A question for council Are the two newly co-opted members of council, the two members that put their names forward to begin with? If not, why weren't the members who put themselves forward co-opted? If so, why have they only been co-opted for 1 year and not the 3 year Mick Ward | ||
| James Binns Member Username: Jamesb Post Number: 40 Registered: 12-2008 |
Here here !!!! Well said Alan. James & Sara Binns (Current members) | ||
| Alan Hodges Member Username: Alan Post Number: 16 Registered: 03-2007 |
The mocking,"holier than though" tone of the latest post by David Titmuss indicates how far up themselves the current BC council are. Surely you are able to see that people are afraid of being stigmatised and bullied by the vocal apostles of BC so they need to hide their identity with a nom de plume? Ex-member but interested (and concerned) occasional poster on this forum. Back to lurking. Alan | ||
| David Titmuss Member Username: Treasurer Post Number: 12 Registered: 12-2013 |
It intrigues me why Bob Longstaffe feels the need to hide behind a false identity. Just what is he frightened of. If he correctly identified himself he may be entitled to a reply. | ||
| Christine Twigg Member Username: Rosibob Post Number: 172 Registered: 02-2008 |
I have followed this and other connected posts for several weeks with a mixture of emotions, none of which was amusement. But the idea that Douglas has or needs a script writer, or is some sort of mouthpiece for Council has tickled me pink! Thank you for making my day. | ||
| David Stafford Member Username: Bbbruno Post Number: 14 Registered: 04-2008 |
I totally agree with Patti on this one. Anyone who knows Douglas and has followed his many posts over the years will know that he has been extremely critical of the Council in the past. His posts are always well constructed and based on facts. Anyone who thinks he has or needs a scriptwriter is uninformed. | ||
| Patti Atkinson Member Username: Pattia Post Number: 107 Registered: 03-2007 |
I love the idea of anyone scripting for Douglas. That is SO FUNNY. You have made my day. | ||
| Bob Longstaff Member Username: Bob_longstaff Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2014 |
My Dear Douglas First you correct me, then waffle on about some minuscule point and avoid all the main questions, below please find a post by Maxine Ingham from a couple of weeks ago,it is critisisizing the same format put forward by David Titmus Posted on Friday, 17 October, 2014 - 11:02 pm: (I think David if BC council just answered the questions members are asking instead of immediately correcting inaccuracies this whole thing could be put to bed. There are lots of inaccuracies that we, the members would like answers to but we seem unable to get them....). It would seam that you and David Titmus use the same scrip writers, could it by any chance be the British Carriagedrivings Executive Officer To answer some of your questions, the idea of a cut off date is when there are a lot more nominations than there are seats available on the council, yes you have to have a cut off date to give time to send out the voting papers, in this case the cut off date should have been extended and the members given extra encouragement to put there names forward Remembering there were 4 free council seats and only 2 candidates ,The closing date was the day after the nationals championships, I am sure you will agree that if you are a competitor the week before the Nationals would be very busy ,after seeing the post on the home page of the B.C. web site on the Monday which was the closing date, both candidates telephoned the office and told the Executive Officer of there intention to stand for council and confirming that the paper work would arrive at the office the next day, Was this information passed on to the full council, or with held What are the real reason the council did not act and confirm the election of the 2 nominees. No Douglas you would not arrive at an event a day late, but if you did and there were no other competitors there, you would be made to feel very welcome. | ||
| Douglas Strachan Member Username: Douglass Post Number: 22 Registered: 06-2007 |
I refer to Mr Longstaff’s submission to the Forum dated 30 October. I wonder if readers of the Forum might like to consider the following Mr Longstaff states that BC Council last communicated with members 6 weeks ago .That must have been on Thursday 18 September. However the AGM / Conference was held on Saturday the 11 October.(less than 3 weeks ago.) On the following Tuesday , 14 October, 3 days after the AGM, the E.O issued, by e-mail to members, a copy of the Conference Pack along with the a note of the arrangements determined in the interval. If Mr Longstaff did not attend the AGM /Conference and did not receive this information, issued on 14 October, would I be correct in assuming that Mr Longstaff. is not a member of BC ? With respect to the Election to Council the procedure was detailed on page 3 of the August 2014 Office News which was issued to all members. The very first sentence states “Nominations are invited for new Council Members and close on Monday 22 September. The date was in BOLD and underlined to give emphasis to its importance. This was the last possible date to allow voting papers to be issued and returned to the scrutineer before the AGM. Mr Longstaff’s states that two drivers were prepared to stand for election but they both failed to send in their nomination by the critical date.. If they were serious nominees it was their duty to ensure that their nominations were received by the closing date.( I just wonder if they arrive one day late for their events ?) | ||
| Bob Longstaff Member Username: Bob_longstaff Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2014 |
Dear British Carriagedriving In the past six weeks we have not heard anything from the Council. The Council numbers have been decimated, due to members not wanting to re stand for council, it could be that the present council are totally impossible to work with. Reading some of the recent threads on the forum would confirm my view. Last year only one member of British Carriagdriving put his name forward for council and that was Ian Gilbert He was elected to the council with no votes, this year two other members of carriage driving put there names forward for council, there nominations were received by the office, one day late and both were refused by the Executive Officer. Do we have a set rules for members from Scotland and another set of slightly unfair rules for the rest of the members from England. The Executive Officer has let it be known , that the British Carriagedriving Council are going to fill the council vacancies with the skill shortages that they see fit . This decision could be made on your behalf by a 3 council members majority vote, this is in no way democratic If there is a skill shortage on the council, its got to be common sense. Is the Executive Officer going to post a message calling for all members that are interested to put forward there names for the 4 vacant council seats, or is the Council going to keep it a close shop ignore the membership and co-opt on the council whom they want. I know that there are definitely 2 keen drivers who would stand for council and have been locked out by the Executive Officer. Do we have a council or a dictatorship,we could be sailing close to a vote of no confidence. Lets bring in the B.E.F. to sort out the mess. | ||
| Eileen Cornish Member Username: Eileenc Post Number: 38 Registered: 08-2007 |
Douglas – no need for an apology this time as you would have no reason to know whether Holker or Erddig had loans or grants. Just to set the record straight as few outside the organising group at Holker or Erddig would know the following: I was asked to organise Holker 2010. As the event was starting from scratch I asked the BHDTA Development Fund for a LOAN of £6000 to help with the cost of obstacle building, which was to be paid back in instalments over the following 5 years. Apart from the post driver and personnel who used it, the rest of the work was done voluntarily by the ‘A’ team along with Cumbrian volunteers. Holker ran for 2 years in 2010 and 2011, and the event then folded. The LOAN was repaid to the Development Fund and the profit of £1787.10 from the 2 years went to Cumbria Carriage Driving Trials for use at Lowther, I believe. Lowther were also given the obstacle materials that had been stored for free at a local farm near Holker; they organised transport for all the wood etc. to be moved from the south to the north of Cumbria. It is thanks to the majority of judges and officials bringing caravans to stay in and only receiving meal vouchers and fuel money, a huge army of volunteers who did every conceivable task for free, the large number of competitors’ entries, the sponsors and local Holker businesses who got behind us, that Holker was able to make a profit after paying back the loan. Like Rita Bundock at the Nationals we had had to work really hard to overcome the problems caused by the Marketing Manager – in 2010 there were £3000 worth of Sponsorship deals arranged by him which failed to materialise. I was then asked to run Erddig in 2012 and again asked the Development Fund for a ‘start up’ LOAN of £2000 which was to be repaid in 2 halves after the 2012 and 2013 events. However Erddig only ran for 1 year and the LOAN was repaid. Again, the event made a profit due to the support of local sponsors, entries of over 100 and, similar to Holker, the generous conditions that judges, officials and volunteers were happy and willing to take part under. After repaying the loan after one event the Welsh Air Ambulance received a donation of £50 which was our entire profit. | ||
| Douglas Strachan Member Username: Douglass Post Number: 21 Registered: 06-2007 |
Costs of National Championships In the past, I have disagreed with BHDTA/BC on several topics such as , Marketing, Name Change, Dumbing down the Marathon to suit the dictates of the FEI, etc,etc, However, I commend the BC Council for their prudence over the last three years. To use some analogies they have “kept the Coach on the road to recovery”, or “have sailed the ship through the stormy waters of National austerity and the Marketing Losses” but we are “not out of the woods yet” The Council gave members the details of the Costs of the Cirencester National Championships in the BC hand-out at the Conference. I think that this might make members appreciate the realities and finances of producing an event. If competitors had to pay for all the volunteer hours of the “A” Team, Officials, Stewards, etc the costs would be astronomical. In the past, the Championships have had generous Sponsorships from Famous Grouse, Lexus, SsangYong, Graghoppers, etc,etc. Without major Sponsors the Championships will always struggle. The Marketing Project in 2011-12 (costing the Reserves about £60k) failed to produce the meaningful Sponsors. At the 2012 Windsor Championships, the Marketing Project had arranged to have a Country Fair in conjunction with the Trials. To put it mildly this was not a success. To try and budget against a background of ambitious forecasts and changing Fair organisers must have been extremely difficult if not impossible I understand that BC held several meetings with Erddig but the goal posts kept changing. From previous experiences of the Erddig events and the deterioration of the original obstacles the decision was therefore made to seek an alternative venue. It was prudent BC budgeting which high-lighted a possible short-fall of £15k in the finances of the proposed Cirencester Championships before the event.. This resulted in the Past Chairman’s letter to all members asking for donations to raise the £15k With respect to the “Donation/Loan/ Contribution” of £5k from the Development Fund, this was most welcome. I don’t think that this was the first time that the Fund made such a “Contribution” I apologise if this OAP’s memory is confused and the following did not occur. I think that the Fund made similar “Contributions” to Windsor (about 2002 ?), Erddig (about 2010 ?) and Holker (about 2012 ?) to build obstacles and thus ensure the viability of these events. These “Contributions” were, I understand, subsequently repaid. I am not an Accountant but I am sure that the Auditors of the Company Accounts for 2014 and the Development Fund will have determined how the £5k is described . Again, I consider the Development Fund to be prudently managed I recommend that the National Championships should be made a Primary Objective of the BC Mission Statement as it is much more important to the vast majority of members than some of the existing Objectives. Members themselves, if they want to maintain the excellent standards achieved at Cirencester, must do more to seek extra funding for the Championships. And please can we get back to enjoying the wonderful Sport of Driving Trials Ps My Apologies to Eileen Cornish for my mistake in attributing the production of the excellent 2014 Year Book to BC and not to her. Sorry | ||
| George Bowman Member Username: George Post Number: 6 Registered: 08-2008 |
Dear David You are not making your self one bit clear, this is what's called a fudge or double talk. I have spoken to my accountant and I ask him if you can put figures in your accounts as a donation and 2 years later change them into a loan, you cant You are the treasurer of British Carriagedriving, the more you carry on labouring this point the less confidence you install in the members. Why don't you be straight forward about the matter Three weeks ago I spoke with a present member of the council, he told me it was a loan and S.D.F were going to turn a blind eye when it came to repayment. The members must not be misled by members of the council. | ||
| David Titmuss Member Username: Treasurer Post Number: 11 Registered: 12-2013 |
Just to clear up a small point that George raised, the money received from the Special Development Fund was a gift, donation, call it what you will and came with no liability to repay the sum. It will not therefore be shown in the Accounts as a liability. A request was received that, if we ever felt we were in a strong enough financial position, we consider making funds available to the SDF to enable them to continue their work in supporting the development of the sport as they did with Cirencester. | ||
| Bryan Gauson Member Username: Stevenson Post Number: 29 Registered: 02-2008 |
National Championships Yes Members the N.C. were rescued at short notice and an excellent venue and event was achieved by a number of hard working volunteers I take my hat off to them and without the efforts of a few this could never have been achieved. How did this come about why did a rescue package need to be achieved in a few weeks? I was present at the AGM in 2013 and asked a very important question what budget is the Council working too for the NC selected by the committee to be held in Wales the answer I received was its too soon to have a budget for this event. So BC shot me down in flames and moved ahead with other business. Some months later I hear it cannot go ahead in Wales as the land rental was too high no one thought to ask in advance for this. Its called part of a structured budget. This is why Im sure Mr. Bowman is trying to point out that 2011 2012 were not good Ashfields rescued us 2013 and volunteers and some grants and a generous gift of 5,000 from our departing chairman makes 2014 NC balance attractive reading . I for one have helped in a small way since 2011 but we must boost the committee with some corporate knowhow and to make sure we don't land in another pickle. Perhaps we should ask Mary to once more request for names from the membership and not have the the limited Council and Committee co-opt council members just to make up the numbers surely we have other bright stars willing to share the load. Well done once more for BC getting themselves out of a potential mess and a special thank you to Mr. Gilbert for bringing Cirencester back on the calendar. As Catriona Bertrum says think positive and you can achieve great things. A closed mind is like a closed parachute no good to anyone. 'Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourself. Let each of us look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. | ||
| Jane Wilson Member Username: Janewil Post Number: 64 Registered: 06-2007 |
Yes Catriona, what a good job it is that there are so many people who are willing to give of their time and effort for the sport they love, for no more reward than the satisfaction of a job well done. I've had to point this very thing out go one of our novice drivers today, who was thinking of dipping her toe in the National water next year, but has been completely put off by all she's been reading in the forum recently! | ||
| Catriona Bertram Member Username: Catriona_bertram Post Number: 4 Registered: 09-2012 |
Dear George, For once I am in complete agreement with you. BC needs to be very prudent with it's money. Cirencester benefited from the hard work of a group of individuals, including Mary, who have the skills required to pull such an event together in such a short space of time. They are happy to use their free time for the benefit of a sport they love. PS The A team always reinstates the ground themselves after an event which normally doesn't cost more than the price of grass seed | ||
| George Bowman Member Username: George Post Number: 5 Registered: 08-2008 |
Dear Catriona If you read all of my posts you will see that I am a straight talker and I am being very clear Cirencester was a fantastic setting and a brilliant site, to avoid it turning into the 2012 fiasco we need accountability and a tight rein kept on the accounts to stop over spending. I am sure the nationals will run, but if it incurs big looses British Carriagedriving do not have the reserves to prop it up, I don't have a problem asking for organisers to be prudent with the members funds, the alternative is a £400.00 entre fees at the Nationals or the loss of it as an event | ||
| Catriona Bertram Member Username: Catriona_bertram Post Number: 3 Registered: 09-2012 |
Dear George, you are becoming a bit of a doom and gloom merchant. What do you suggest - we just don't bother having a National Championships? | ||
| George Bowman Member Username: George Post Number: 4 Registered: 08-2008 |
Dear Mary For all the free work you put into the Nationals Championships, I commend you I am sure not many people will give up 3 weeks of there annual leave to take on this mammoth task in organising the Nationals You have saved the National Championships a fortune, if all your time had to be taken into account, the Nationals would have had considerable losses This is what you told the forum in your last post ( the Special Development Fund very kindly made a donation to the National Championships. Once the event is on a sound financial footing we hope to be able to repay the money but this was not a condition of the donation). You are the E.O. you just have to be straight and say it how it is This type of double talking is what the members don’t want and should be confined to the present council, who seem to be masters at it Mary if you received a donation from the special development fund to go towards the Nationals Championships, a donation is a donation, there is no need for the money to be repaid .This would mean the Nationals is in profit. If you received a loan from the special development fund, a loan is a loan and that loan will have to be repaid. This would mean the Nationals would have made a loss. IT CAN’T BE BOTH. Quote I will make sure I get it in writing next time –Wilf Bowman Ripley My advice is take a leaf out of Wilfs book and get some thing on paper, then no one will be misled. Next year the National Championships running costs will be Approx £29000, add to this the Loan of £5000 Now you have Costs of £34000 Less income from entries £21000. =loss £13000 or if your loan turns into a donation a loss of £80000. I will be surprised if you manage to get donations of £15000 in 2015. What a catastrophic event the Nationals were in 2012 and the council leaving Rita Bundock to hold the can, its not a very good example of how to run a sport. Rita was the secretary but who was in charge! What a hot potato, no wonder the Council wanted to hand it over to Ashfields at any cost. I think that costs at the Nationals need to be kept on a tight rein The figures show that it is going to be difficult to balance the books And that’s when there are no problems and good weather conditions. If the weather turns bad and there are clear up costs and ground costs It could turn into another nightmare The council need to get an under taking from who ever is going to be in charge of the Nationals and some one needs to be accountable if there are huge over spends. Is there any thing you and any other member of the council would like to tell the members about the Nationals Championships 2012, mybe a little apology to Rita Bundock would be a good start | ||
| Rita Bundock Member Username: Roanmare Post Number: 52 Registered: 11-2007 |
Maybe Mr Bowman should think a bit harder before he starts asking who was in charge of the Nat Champs when the event run at loss of £11,000. That was the year of the Country Fair. The Council hired a Marketing Manager on an annual salary of some considerable amount, who had promised great things especially sponsorship for the Nat Champs. This was not forth coming in any form whatsoever, he also arranged for the Country Fair to be run at Windsor, and then disappeared off the radar. This was duplicated by the gentleman who was going to run the Country Fair as part of his business. Although he did turn up to help at the actual event. The idea being that the CF would bring in members of the public to the Nat Champs thus increasing the gate income. Sadly financial support for the CF disappeared along with NC sponsorship. The then, BHDTA Council decided to run the CF as it had been advertised, they were advised that it would run at a loss but decided to go with it and absorb any financial shortfall. The CF required extra facilities including security, toilets, tents, fencing and catering, etc., all at even more cost. The CF was a total failure financially with no increase in gate income. Many cuts were made to the costs in an attempt to keep within budget. Many more than were obvious to competitors. Many costs were reduced by negotiating with companies supplying equipment etc., but no matter how many cuts were made, or the amount of income from the little sponsorship gained plus the entry fees, etc., the CF wiped them out completely, and so the NC ran at a far greater loss than it would have done if the CF was not there. As for the following year when the NC was cancelled at Windsor and Wilf generously agreed to run them on behalf on BCd. After costing various requirements to run the Championship the Council were advised of the financial deficits that would be incurred unless sufficient sponsorship could be forthcoming. ALL members of the Council and NC Committee were asked to try to obtain £500 sponsorship each, this would have been sufficient to run the NC at Windsor that year. NONE OF THE COUNCIL RESPONDED to the request and only Julia Crockford came up with the promise of the requested sponsorship. So when BCd accounts are reviewed DO NOT BLAME the National Championships. They were in financial strife well before I stupidly agreed to take them on. BLAME THE 2012 COUNCIL for its lack of commitment and short sightedness towards its OWN event. | ||
| Mary Kusin Member Username: Maryk Post Number: 5 Registered: 03-2007 |
Dear George, As National Championship organiser, many thanks for your compliments regarding the 2014 event on behalf of myself and the whole team. I would like to clear up one or two misunderstandings in your post below. First, all the time I spent on the event was done on a voluntary basis; the work I do for BC is separate. Second, the Special Development Fund very kindly made a donation to the National Championships. Once the event is on a sound financial footing we hope to be able to repay the money but this was not a condition of the donation. Third, on the subject of the National Championship finances, while the income was around £45k, the expenditure was considerably less. This was published in the Conference Pack (also circulated by e-mail to all members) so that the National Championships finances were laid out for all to see. There is a balance remaining of £4,212.62, polo shirts and the hog roast were self-financing and there was a considerable amount spent on one off costs. Once all these costs which were shown in the income and expenditure account are removed, you will see that the actual cost of running the championships was £28,983.64 which works out at an average of £254 / competitor. I hope you will agree that this makes the event financially viable and therefore sustainable for many years with no debt imposed on the members. Finally, the event organiser for 2015 is David Titmuss who will be running the event on a voluntary basis, as I did, for the good of the sport and for the members. | ||
| David Taylor Member Username: Davidt Post Number: 31 Registered: 02-2007 |
Thank you George for a couple of clear unambiguous answers. | ||
| George Bowman Member Username: George Post Number: 3 Registered: 08-2008 |
Dear Catriona The National Championships 2014 was a fantastic event, saved from the jaws of collapse by the A team from Scotland and many other helpers, who all collectively put in a huge effort free of charge to make Cirencester a fantastic venue, I am sure all members who were there,will agree with me and I salute them all The entry fee for a National Event only covers about half the running costs. The Nationals this year had the highest entry fee we have seen at a B.C. National Event and I am afraid the door has been opened and this will be a bench mark set for future events The costs of the National championships was £45000 which is approx £450 per competitor This is not taking into account the £5000 loan from the special development fund that will have to be repaid, it does not take into account Mary Kusins salary for the many many hours it takes to organise and run an event of this size. Next year B.C. will have to pay someone else to organise and run the National Championships, also there is no loan from the special development fund and no donation from Jock Macfarlane, plus the loan from this year will have to be repayed, you could be looking at loses in the region of £20,000. I have been informed that the council want to sign a 5 year contract with the land owners which will take losses to £100,000, All B.C. members will be responsible for this dept. Ashfields gave a guarantee to under write any losses, remember the year before, the National Championships lost £11000. The question that should be asked is who was in charge of the N.C. when B.C. incurred those losses. I think that one of the problems with the council is that they don’t tell us the full story My answer to David Taylor Lowther has not withdrawn as a national event, in sympathy with Ashfields, Lowther has completely different issues to Ashfields There are more issues, but this is just one of them The British Carriagedriving Council want to change the P.O.J, the TD, the Course builder and the safety officer for Lowther 2015, I have explained that that I have chosen the officials from the B.C. officials list and if the council don't think they are up to scratch, they must take the said officials off the list, until then Lowther will remain loyal to its officials and helpers. The present Council are out of touch | ||
| Bryan Gauson Member Username: Stevenson Post Number: 28 Registered: 02-2008 |
Dear Mrs Bertram, I think Mr. Bowman Ripley and B.C. experienced Council can resolve this matter between themselves now that so many members have voiced their opinions. Both parties will have regrets that the offer was not put in writing prior to the 2013 N.C. Lets hope matters can be resolved amicably and we can enjoy our hobby during 2015 with a full calendar of National events and perhaps the council can extend a welcome back onto the committee to Mr. Bowman Ripley and anyone else with suitable skills willing to be co-opted onto the committees to DRIVE us forward into 2015. Fighting amongst ourselves resolves nothing. A lesson learnt the hard way put every thing in writing. Don't assume anything. | ||
| David Taylor Member Username: Davidt Post Number: 30 Registered: 02-2007 |
I am only reading David Titmus post of 18th October and asking? | ||
| Catriona Bertram Member Username: Catriona_bertram Post Number: 2 Registered: 09-2012 |
You mean to say that all this strife and angst was caused by one man's inability to accept money graciously without having the name Start Fees attached to it? Beggars belief! I would have thought that a former member of Council would know why that was not possible! | ||
| David Taylor Member Username: Davidt Post Number: 29 Registered: 02-2007 |
David - BC Council. Do I understand that a compromise was almost achieved with BC willing to give Ashfields the money (which would turn their loss around), but insisting it was not termed 'start fees' and Wilf insisting it was on a matter of principal? Surely that can be sorted? Can BC not make a payment as a 'goodwill gesture' and that be accepted on similar basis with no precedent or concessions made. A business might similarly choose to hold on top a good client by doing just such even if feeling deep down that it was not in their opinion justified. I am not implying either way here. It was obviously with hindsight poor management on the side of both parties not to have everything written in black and white. However as I am all too willing to accept people on face value and on trust I cannot criticise either for such failing. Incidentally we have not been given an explanation as to why Lowther have withdrawn as a national event, is it in sympathy or further skeletons in the cupboard? My comment on the sale of Windsor obstacles was also ignored by all parties? | ||
| Catriona Bertram Member Username: Catriona_bertram Post Number: 1 Registered: 09-2012 |
Dear Brian, as I understand it,Start Fees, which if you remember were introduced to replace horse registration and a levy paid by events per competitor [also a very contentious issue], are used to help pay for all the running costs of BC. They have always been paid to BC and have NEVER been part of an event's income. Why an event should assume otherwise is a complete mystery. Why some individuals seem hellbent on creating strife over this is also a mystery, but is very unlikely to have anything to do with Ashfields being left out of pocket. I am certain the Council have a very clear view 'through the trees' | ||
| Brian Cairns Member Username: Brianc Post Number: 18 Registered: 01-2008 |
Hi Wendy, if you dont mind me calling you by your first name. I totaly agree with what you say, lets have a proper explanation of these start fees, and what the reluctant sum of money be called.Bring back Ashfields,its clear that BC cant see wood forthe trees.Mr Brianc | ||
| Wendy Miles Member Username: Wendy_miles Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2014 |
i'm not accusing i am asking the question "is it" there are plenty more posts asking similar questions just questions, why are you happy to pay it if it is not called start fees????? i dont understand what difference it makes, | ||
| David Titmuss Member Username: Treasurer Post Number: 10 Registered: 12-2013 |
Wendy, Interesting to note you address me as Dave, a familiar name usually reserved for people I'm acquainted with. I am unaware that I have met you and your name does not appear on the current membership list, is this yet another alias? That aside you make certain assumptions in your post that are simply untrue, I made no suggestion that any claim be made for something else or that any claim be resubmitted. I am the only one posting as the acting chairman is currently on holiday and therefore as acting vice chairman I am the spokesperson for Council. Kindly withdraw your accusations of false or illegal accounting. | ||
| Jane Wilson Member Username: Janewil Post Number: 63 Registered: 06-2007 |
I'm quite sure that if any BC member was to send their questions/queries to council or members thereof, they would be happy to reply in the same fashion. Cyber-bullying is neither helpful, appropriate or acceptable. | ||
| Wendy Miles Member Username: Wendy_miles Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2014 |
Hi Dave if Ashfields submitted an application for payment of start fees is it not false accounting to tell Ashfields to resubmit their application as something else (no idea what) and then they would be paid? Would it not be illegal also for Ashfields to submit a payment application for services it did not supply or agree to charge for?? Could you also please tell us why you did not want to pay it as "start fees" I do appreciate and note that you are the only Council member to have the decency to answer member questions, thank you | ||
| David Titmuss Member Username: Treasurer Post Number: 9 Registered: 12-2013 |
Maxine, firstly I do not take any of this personally but it is becoming tiresome as I do have a life outside BC ( I think). I'll try and state some facts:- Both Zoe and BC have published statements from their points of view so there is no attempt to avoid issues. I have no idea as to the identity of Simon Harrison, though he does seem to have access to factual information. Tim Bradford indicated by text message, before a vote, that if a council decision went against his opinion he would not wish to Chair Council, but as I personally did not see the text you must ask him if I am correct. Council were in discussion with Ashfields as to ways (reluctantly) money could be paid to keep Ashfields on the calendar. Ashfields insisted that the payment was termed "start fees". I was the first to say that if all agreed I would support payment of a sum of money, however, if it was insisted on being called "start fees" then I would vote a resounding NO. Please refer to finance report in conference papers. Again I was not present but conveying this decision prompted the immediate verbal decision by Wilf to not stand for re-election. I'm sure that council would welcome Ashfields back on the calendar at any time they saw fit to apply. I can add nothing further at this point. Regards David | ||
| Maxine Ingham Member Username: Harvey Post Number: 50 Registered: 06-2008 |
But why aren't the members being given an explanation David? Why didn't Jock explain that he was no longer going to be Chairman at the AGM in his speech or now, at a later date why haven't council explained? Lots of posts on here and on FB are alluding to there being more to this than we are led to believe. Surely BC should issue a clear statement explaining the facts, answering questions that have been posted by members on here and FB. If they just did that it would be open and transparent and members wouldn't think that BC are being underhand and withholding information....Which to be honest is how it seems. Please don't think I'm being personal to you David but you are the only council member to post replies!!!! | ||
| Debbie Tatton Member Username: Debtattonhotmailcom Post Number: 23 Registered: 05-2011 |
I agree with Maxine. Maybe Tim should be given a chance to recount his reason(s) for withdrawing just before the AGM if he feels able to and/or BC council need to expand on the situation. | ||
| David Titmuss Member Username: Treasurer Post Number: 7 Registered: 12-2013 |
Maxine, a slight correction. The printed version of Jock's speech in the conference pack said that Tim was to become Chairman because that is what we believed at the time. When Jock delivered his report verbally he omitted that sentence. I too believe Tim to be a principled, honest and reliable person. | ||
| Maxine Ingham Member Username: Harvey Post Number: 49 Registered: 06-2008 |
David, BC Council, We all now know that Tim is not Chairman because Barry is now listed as Chairman on the BC website. But why did Tim withdraw his consent at the very last moment? And if he withdrew his consent on the morning of the AGM, then why did Jock still tell the membership that he was going to be Chairman? Tim has always struck me as a principled, honest and reliable person so something really doesn't add up here.... Maybe if BC won't answer the question then perhaps someone else can? | ||
| David Titmuss Member Username: Treasurer Post Number: 5 Registered: 12-2013 |
Tim Bradford withdrew his consent to be co-opted to Council and to be elected Chairman on the morning of the AGM. | ||
| Debbie Tatton Member Username: Debtattonhotmailcom Post Number: 22 Registered: 05-2011 |
Please can someone either from council or elsewhere explain why Tim Bradford was not appointed new chair of BC as was stated in jock macfarlanes openning statement at the AGM? Once again rumours need to be quashed. Thank you |